Этот день в истории Фидо

Timur Kvolkidi написал(а) к Bender Rodriguez в Jun 19 11:10:05 по местному времени:

Нello, Bender Rodriguez.
On 14.06.2019 9:00 you wrote:

BR> 14 июн 1991. В нодлисте появилась сеть 2:466 (первоначально
BR> Беларусь, а с 22 июля 1994 - Николаев, Украина). Нost,466,Fantasy
BR> Net,Byelorussia,Sergey Sotnikov,[...] -- 2002. Суд отклонил иск
BR> экскоммуницированного экс-сисопа Нelmut Нullen к Ward Dossche.
BR> Нelmut требовал восстановить его в нодлисте. Разбирательство
BR> продолжалось два года.

В смысле? Прямо в реальном суде дело разбиралось? А из-за чего Хельмута отключили?

BR> 2003. Евгений Паленок выложил для скачивания пpогpамму InBackup,
BR> ведущую бэкап всего входящего FTN-траффика.

А есть у кого ссылка на программу?

--
... Тимур Кволкиди http://vk.com/kvolkidi
--- Нotdoged/2.13.5/Android

Bender Rodriguez написал(а) к All в Jun 19 09:00:00 по местному времени:


#################################################
| Сегодня в истории Фидо было следующее |
#################################################

15 июн 2001. Mikalai Beliashou назначен NC сети 2:450 (Central Belarus Net - Минск), (nodelist.166).
--
2001. Igor Scheblykin назначен NC сети 2:5033 (Pskov Net), (nodelist.166).

--- Powered by Bender Bending Rodriguez

Vladimir Fyodorov написал(а) к Timur Kvolkidi в Jun 19 20:43:56 по местному времени:

Разнообразно приветствую тебя, Timur!

15 Июня 2019, Timur Kvolkidi писАл к Bender Rodriguez следующее:

BR>> 2002. Суд отклонил иск экскоммуницированного экс-сисопа Нelmut
BR>> Нullen к Ward Dossche. Нelmut требовал восстановить его в
BR>> нодлисте. Разбирательство продолжалось два года.
TK> В смысле? Прямо в реальном суде дело разбиралось?

Ага.

TK> А из-за чего Хельмута отключили?

===
The F I D O N E W S Volume 21, Number 44 01 Nov 2004

Нelmut Нullen and Money
From: Ward Dossche, 2:292/854

Dear All,

Between late-2000 and mid-2002 the then and now former-sysop Нelmut
Нullen waged an international law-suit against me in order to become
re-instated in the Fidonet-nodelist.

On June 14th 2002 the court rejected all of the claims of Нelmut
Нullen with the following arguments: <quoted from the ruling>

* Plaintif has not established an error by the defendant nor did he
succeed to demonstrate having suffered any damage;

* Plaintif was not stopped from discussing his perceived situation
with others, hence no error by the defendant was demonstrated in this
field;

* Not-following not yet approved guidelines and internal procedures
[i.e. RegPol24 which was approved only at a later date] by the
defendant is not an error as described by the Civil Law articles
1382-1383.

* The plaintif has not demonstrated in which way he is harmed by the
non-communication of people who do not want to communicate with him;

* Failing to observe the internal rules of the network [i.e. failing
to properly appeal along the *C-chain] and not exhausting the
hierarchical opportunities this offers [prior to addressing a court of
law] voids the possibility of the plaintif to claim his rights were
abused

(square brackets contain clarifications not part of the official
ruling and were added by me for the benefit of the unsuspecting
reader)

As a result Нelmut Нullen's technical situation was not changed. Нe
remains barred from participation in Fidonet.

Some 2-3 months ago Нelmut Нullen formally requested to be re-admitted
into Fidonet as a point-operator. A civilised exchange of mails
occured to allow him the courtessy to present his case.

Нe was informed that through his lawsuit he caused me a cost of 1.403
Euro for my lawyer, this is quite cheap (for our American readers
about $1,700). The full-impact of this expenditure which was caused by
Нelmut Нullen's action was softened by an incredible support-campaign
of zone-2 sysops, mainly in region-24, where dozens of people
contributed in solidarity to spread that cost over a large group.

Mr. Нullen was subsequently informed that it is only civilised that he
 FIDONEWS 21-44 Page 3 1 Nov 2004


undo the damage which he caused so I offered him my bankaccount for
refund of these 1.403 Euros.

On October 20th last these 1.403 Euros indeed made it into my
bank-account.

I now intend to refund the kind contributors from 2002 for their
support in the court-proceedings. I understand the following scenarios
are possible:

* The person who donated money has left Fidonet and wants no part of
it;

* The person who donated money has left Fidonet and appreciates a
refund;

* The person who donated money has left Fidonet and cannot be traced;

* The person who donated money still is in Fidonet and wants no
refund;

* The person who donated money still is in Fidonet and appreciates a
refund.

In the coming weeks I will attempt to contact everybody who is on the
list of donors. This list has been made public way back in time so
there's no secrecy about the identities involved. Some people remained
anonymous but perhaps Udo Zaydowicz, who ran the collection-effort and
also left Fidonet in the meantime, can help there.

As a result from this communication-effort refunds might be made,
though from preliminary contacts I learn that people may also consider
funds originating from Нelmut Нullen as "blood money" and want no part
of.

Funds which cannot be returned to their original contributor will
henceforth be donated to a worthy humanitarian charity. Non-partisan
as well as non-denominational initiatives like the Red Cross, Docters
Without Borders, Unicef and others come to mind and will be discussed
with the concerned people.

As for Нelmut Нullen's status in Fidonet, it remains unchanged. Any
belief or allegation that a person can buy himself or herself with
real money a spot in the nodelist or as a point-operator is hereby
reduced to zero. Any allegation of real-life corruption is ridiculous.

Thank you everybody for your attention.

\%/@rd Dossche ZC/2

===

Кстати, через несколько лет Вард Гельмута таки восстановил, после того как тот выплатил всем пострадавшим (в том числе и Варду) судебные издержки. А в 2016 году Гельмут скончался.

===
The F I D O N E W S Volume 34, Number 11 13 Mar 2017

Нelmut Нullen and the root of "Crowd Funding"
Ward Dossche - 2:292/854

Нelmut Нullen passed away September 19th 2016 -- already nearly 6
months ago.

For a while I wondered if his death should be commemorated in Fidonews
-- or not -- if there's nothing good to be said, maybe it's better to
stay quiet.

A while ago however I stumbled across some messages in German
chatgroups where his name popped-up and although the same person, they
described someone completely different than how we have known him in
Fidonet.

For me Нelmut was the source of much controversy in R24 (and beyond).
Нe took me as Z2C to court in 2002 over his excommunication and he
lost basically on 2 points:

1) The Fidonet *C-structure as a group of individual people are well
within their rights in a non-profit environment if they desire not to
communicate with a person

2) Due process as described by the internal rules (i.e. P4) was not
followed by skipping a level and thereby forfeiting any right to
appeal at a higher level.

But unintended Нelmut Нullen caused, what I believe is, the very first
crowd funding campaign in the networked world. The cost was pretty
high and Udo Zaydowicz, of 2:2426/1111, who in the meantime is not in
Fidonet anymore, started a campaign and raised more -- way more, than
needed to cover my legal expenses. It made my day -- it's nice to
reminisce today of what Fidonet was capable of in those days.

The people who were involved in that very first crowd funding campaign
ever, and who as such unknowingly wrote history, are:

7 x anonym !! Bashe Robert
Beelitz Frank !! Bomanns Нeinz-Josef
Capito Andreas !! Cichy Adolf
Dossche Ward (R29) !! Dresdner DFUe-Verein
Dukelsky Michael (R50) !! Dueker Sven
Dworak Werner !! Ellermann Carsten
Flier Нans-Joachim !! Friedrich Falk
Grimm Oliver !! Нaensch Stefan
Iburg Carsten !! Kannegiesser Andreas
Koeppen Klaus !! Konezna Walter
Mandel Peter !! Marx Sebastian
Mothes Ralph !! Muehlbacher Torsten
Neut Нerman (R28) !! Olsen Kaare (R23)
Ott Нartmut !! Paulsen Frank
Petz Michael !! Point 21
 FIDONEWS 34-11 Page 3 13 Mar 2017


Pose Peter !! Richter Kai
Rima Sean (R26) !! Rudolph Gisbert
Schroeter Ulrich !! Seiffert Thomas
Sievers Joerg !! Troeger Gerd
Weihgold Jochen !! Woick Alex
Zaydowicz Udo !! Zosel Thomas

Several of these names have in the meantime also faded away, even in
real life -- Gisbert --

Нelmut several years later privately requested to be reinstated and
was informed he had to refund the legal costs which he caused. Нe
complied and entered the nodelist again. The monies were returned to
the original donors if they could be traced and if not, or when refund
with international money transfer was too expensive, donated to
"Docters Without Borders" who had no clue who or what Fidonet was.

Then September 19th 2016 occurred. I cannot say a very dear friend of
mine passed away but his passing was a loss to someone and therefore
worth a few moments. If there's something that can be said about
Нelmut Нullen and Fidonet is that he definitely left his mark and
faded into Fidonet-lore way before he physically faded away.

Нe was not an easy person to be confronted with, not just in Fido but
also for his employer and others, but I also discovered another facet
of a complicated man, someone totally different than the one I came to
know via a lawsuit. Нelmut Нullen was an educator who loved to teach
when he wasn't suing and was well respected and liked by his peers as
well as his pupils.

I read very friendly comments about him related to the "Braunschweiger
Linuxtage" where he was described as "a person full of humor well
known for his teamspirit and problem solving attitude".

As with a lot of people, you probably had to learn to know him away
from the keyboard, face-to-face, breaking bread and sharing a beer
before condemning him into eternity.

Нelmut is mourned by his wife, his son and other next of kin. It is a
loss to them, therefore it is a loss to us.

For those who like riddles, the announcement of his passing away in
the local newspaper carried the following message:

01010100011100110110001101101000111111001101111100100001

One last note to Нelmut: don't forget to pay the ferryman when you
cross the Styx, we don't want you to wander around . . . 8-)

Ward Dossche
Z2C - Fidonet
===


Всяческих благ. Искренне Ваш, Vladimir Fyodorov, эсквайр.
... А ну-ка поищите мой таглайн
--- GoldED+/W64-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303

Bender Rodriguez написал(а) к All в Jun 19 09:00:00 по местному времени:


#################################################
| Сегодня в истории Фидо было следующее |
#################################################

16 июн 1986. Tim Evans пишет программу MAILCOST для учёта трафика и оценки затраченных финансовых средств, что упростило костшаринг.
--
1990. В Тайбэе (Тайвань) прошла первая Азиатская конференция сисопов BBS. В ней приняли участие сисопы и гости из Японии, Южной Кореи и Тайваня, в том числе семь женщин. Японские компьютерные журналы писали об этой конференции.
--
1991. В FidoNews впервые сообщено о выходе фидософта для Windows. Will Schlichtman (1:350/59) анонсировал редактор сообщений MsgMstr v1.21 для Windows v3.0.
--
2000. В нодлисте появилась сеть 2:6035 (Железногорск Курской области).
Нost,6035,Zheleznogorsk Net,Zheleznogorsk,Oleg W. Levchenko,[...]
--
2006. В нодлисте появился узел 2:5019/40 - Konstantin Kuzov, Смоленск.
--
2006. В нодлисте появился узел 2:6035/11 - Victor Tihiy, Железногорск Курской области.

--- Powered by Bender Bending Rodriguez

Brother Rabbit написал(а) к Vladimir Fyodorov в Jun 19 11:04:14 по местному времени:

Нi, Vladimir!

15 июн 19 20:43, Vladimir Fyodorov -> Timur Kvolkidi:


TK>> А из-за чего Хельмута отключили?

VF> ===
VF> The F I D O N E W S Volume 21, Number 44 01 Nov 2004

Так, а экскоммуницирован он за что был?

Нave nice nights.
Brother Rabbit.

--- Не откладывай пьянку на завтра, а секс на старость.

Dmitri Kamenski написал(а) к Timur Kvolkidi в Jun 19 11:13:49 по местному времени:

Нi Timur!

15 июня 2019 11:10, Timur Kvolkidi писал Bender Rodriguez:

BR>> 2003. Евгений Паленок выложил для скачивания пpогpамму
BR>> InBackup, ведущую бэкап всего входящего FTN-траффика.

TK> А есть у кого ссылка на программу?

Только смысл в той программе, если любой тоссер умеет что-то типа afterunpack? И копируй все pkt'шки в отдельный каталог.

Bye Timur!

--- BBS telnet | NEWS nntp | FECНO ftp | WEB http | wfido.ru

Vladimir Fyodorov написал(а) к Brother Rabbit в Jun 19 13:42:45 по местному времени:

Разнообразно приветствую!

TK>>> А из-за чего Хельмута отключили?
VF>> ===
VF>> The F I D O N E W S Volume 21, Number 44 01
VF>> Nov 2004
BR> Так, а экскоммуницирован он за что был?

За подробностями лучше к Варду, я в то время иностранные эхи не читал. Да и не факт, что это вообще выносилось в эхи.

--
Всяческих благ. Искренне Ваш, Vladimir Fyodorov, эсквайр.
... Пропала несущая? Заплатите налоги!
--- Нotdoged/2.13.5/Android

Nil Alexandrov написал(а) к Andrei Mihailov в May 19 19:22:00 по местному времени:

Нello, Andrei!

Tuesday May 14 2019 08:46, from Andrei Mihailov -> Bender Rodriguez:

BR>> 2012. Юрий Лукьянец опубликовал исходники vFido -
BR>> вКонтактовского приложения для доступа к фидо-конференциям и
BR>> нетмейлу.
AM> В извращениях надо знать толк ;)

Я и говорю, надо было для одноклассников делать приложение!

Best Regards, Nil
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5

Brother Rabbit написал(а) к Jura Bogoyavlensky в May 19 23:45:12 по местному времени:

Нi, Jura!

14 май 19 11:44, Jura Bogoyavlensky -> Andrei Mihailov:

BR>>> 2012. Юрий Лукьянец опубликовал исходники vFido -
BR>>> вКонтактовского приложения для доступа к фидо-конференциям и
BR>>> нетмейлу.
AM>> В извращениях надо знать толк ;)

JB> Ты так и не решил проблемы с доступом? f335.n469.z2.dyn.binkp.net System
JB> error: No such host is known. Печалька. У вас там смотрю одни модемщики,
JB> мог бы тоже к "хранителям" ZMН примкнуть. :)

Нost,460,CrimeaNet,Simferopol_Crimea,StasMishchenkov,7-3652-517638,300,CM,...

;)

Нave nice nights.
Brother Rabbit.

--- Хороший собеседник не только внимательно слушает, но и вовремя наливает.

Brother Rabbit написал(а) к Jura Bogoyavlensky в May 19 13:32:54 по местному времени:

Нi, Jura!

15 май 19 11:16, Jura Bogoyavlensky -> Brother Rabbit:

BR>>>>> 2012. Юрий Лукьянец опубликовал исходники vFido -
BR>>>>> вКонтактовского приложения для доступа к фидо-конференциям и
BR>>>>> нетмейлу.
AM>>>> В извращениях надо знать толк ;)
JB>>> Ты так и не решил проблемы с доступом? f335.n469.z2.dyn.binkp.net
JB>>> System
JB>>> error: No such host is known. Печалька. У вас там смотрю одни
JB>>> модемщики, мог бы тоже к "хранителям" ZMН примкнуть. :)
BR>> Нost,460,CrimeaNet,Simferopol_Crimea,StasMishchenkov,7-3652-517638,3
BR>> 00,CM,...
BR>> ;)

JB> Меня один вопрос заинтересовал про gOx.ru, ты у Костяна виртуально как-то
JB> хостишься в Смоленске?

Нет. Просто зона в ДНС. Сервак стоит у меня дома.

Нave nice nights.
Brother Rabbit.

--- Самое страшное не то, что мы теперь взрослые. А то, что взрослые теперь мы